Having played in one of my To the Strongest! games at Historicon last year, my freind Jima Mauro took up the TTS! banner himself, running two games. I was able to assist some with the first, played Thursday night.
The scenario was based upon an actual battle, I believe it was the Battle on the Plains of Torvioll, fought in 1444. Above, the Ottoman Center with the Sultan and his Sipahis. In the distance can be seen the main Albanian position, defensing two low hill tops, lined with as many archers as could be found. The Ottoman center advances at speed.... and them ambushes in the woods on either flank are repealed. The plan is tio funnel the Ottoman attack into a killing ground where the Turks can be softened up by massed bowfire.
The battle develops as planned. The Albanian commander, who I believe was Gjergj Kastrioti, better known as Skanderberg, a corruption of his Turkish nickname, iskender beg, which means "Lord Alexander". Hw as rated as a Great Leader.
The Ottoman center comes into bow range! Jim used a 4" grid and 15 mm figures.
Overview of the Ottoman Left and Center
The Ottoman Center and Right.
Jim uses chits numbered 1 - 10 x 4 instead of cards. I appreciate the aesthetics, but I p[refer the cards for clarity and sped (no matter what mojo you attempt, the card at the top of the deck will not change!). In particular, I found these black on olive green ones very difficult to read, misreading them with great regularity!
Close up of the Ottoman right and its opposition.
Very handsome game. I agree with you that cards are preferred and stick to original sampling without replacement. The chits are hard to see.
ReplyDeleteCards, chits, or dice will all work, but cards are the easiest to see and the fastest. Personally, I play through each deck, which means everyone will have almost exactly the same number of 10's, aces, etc., over the course of the game... of course when and where they happen makes a big difference!
DeleteYes, I can imagine that being able to redraw the chits would change the probablilities slightly whereas, with a card deck, you know every card will get drawn at some point. They are some lovely looking 15mm figures there, and nice to see Sam developing such a specific interest. Vienna would seem to be a good place to go to further expand it.
ReplyDeleteSimon actually reshuffles at the end of each turn, but I prefer it the other way as above. Andy tells me that Sam is studying Logistics (supply chain management), but there is one of the major coin exchanges nearby, and Sam has already acted as a consultant to such elsewhere!
DeleteI kind of understand the desire for a better aesthetic with TtS - were you turning cards but just using the chits to record where you got to? One of our gaming mates' has often suggested we could substitute D10 for the cards in terms of seeing if the unit passed a test to have another action, but as Lawrence has said, that way changes the intended probabilities (although are they actually intended to represent anything anyway??). A similar question involves whether players should be allowed to shuffle the pack each turn, or have to carry on to the bitter end until all cards have been used - our host Julian favours shuffling each turn but again, this means that whatever probability the writer built into the activation system by using packs of cards is removed, because if you shuffle the full pack each turn, you may potentially NEVER get a 2 or a 10.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, some interesting points to ponder (as you can see, we have done too - but with no final agreement!)
you can certainly use D10's, but they are easily knocked over, and it does alter the probabilities a bit. We tend to take pictures etc at the end of the turns when the cards are removed. Sometimes taking a shot with the cards on the table tells the story, too!
DeleteGreat looking game. Ottomans are seen on wargames tables less so Albanians or Moldavians :-)
ReplyDeleteAll three of these are certainly armies that I lack, although Joe has a large Ottoman collection.
DeleteQuite impressive tosee those armies on the tables. I should finish my upgrade painting. I would agree cards are easier to see. That said. I
ReplyDeleteLook at the TTS system, and there is so much clutter.
The main clutter aside from the cards, dice, or chits, one of which which are an absolute necessity for the system to work, and tracking ammunition. Most other markers are limited to a few units and are most often single use. The ECW game is heavier in markers due principally to tracking "Dash". I can't say that any of them really bother me, but tastes will vary. What I like is the cleverness of the system, with the constant need to make decisions, and no guarantees as to the options, even though you can certainly "stack the deck" in your favor by making better choices. That's why so many of the Piquet crow enjoy the rules.
DeleteThanks for posting, Peter. It had been 20+ years since I ran a game at any Con, and it was a lot of fun. The battle w/ the Albanians was indeed based upon Torvioll.
ReplyDeleteWe prefer chits to cards, especially w/15mm… and even when we started with cards we shuffled after each player turn per the rules. Odds & probabilities do change but, at the end of the day, all of this is player preference.
We did get very positive response to both games, but more importantly, players like the rules, and to me that’s what is most important.
I really enjoyed the experience and frankly I prefer organizing and running games more than playing. I will be running many more TtS! Games at future Cons. Perhaps, Bulgars v. Byzantines...Mongols v. Hungarians?
Jim M
Chits, cards and dice are just different options. I can see where the smaller figures make the cards more intrusive. The impact upon the game itself is minimal.
DeleteGreat to see a 15th century Ottoman battle being played out, such a great period to game!
ReplyDeleteThere are many battles that involved the Ottomans during this time period, the vast majority of which are not well know, even to most Renaissance gamers. A rich area for exploration!
DeleteGood looking games, always nice to see Ottomans and balkan armies, I quite fancy having one or both of those, I'm happy with cards in TtS and it moves fast!
ReplyDeleteBest Iain