Version 2 of To the strongest, not expected until mid 2020, will likely have two volumes, with the second covering warfare up to about 1580. Simon's thoughts on this are below, followed by some comments and feedback after our battle last week
Peter, with Simon's' comments:
3) Would arquebuses be able to fire and withdraw 1 bow to the rear like bowmen? Crossbows are listed as NOT being able to shoot and move.
5) We used a couple of Colonellas, but no free standing Arquebus units. Was it your intent that regular (2 hit) arquebus units be able to double fire (for 2 chits) on their first shot, but Deep (three hit) Arquebus units be able to double fire at any time (reflecting fire by rotation)?
Although the To the
Strongest! rules notionally run up to 1500 or so they don’t cover
some of the new weapons and tactics that were introduced in the
Italian Wars of the late 15th and early 16th
century. This supplement will extend the period from the French
invasion of Italy in 1494 through to the end of the Italian Wars in
1559. Conflicts after 1559 will use a different rule engine that I am
developing for the pike and shot era. Although the rules are intended
primarily for the Italian Wars, I have included troop types that will
enable battles during most of the other contemporary wars in Europe
to be fought.
I had developed some of
the required troop types but am hugely grateful to Les Mansir who
contributed many ideas and text for other troop types. Later on,
we’ll add army lists and hopefully some scenarios.
This is very much a rough
first draft and all of the ideas in it are open for discussion;
certainly nothing is set in stone. Please feel free to comment
frankly and critically!
Additional
troop types for the Italian Wars
These
complement the existing troop types described in the basic rules.
Arquebusiers
Arquebusiers represent
the early firearms which began to be introduced towards the end of
our period in the second half of the 15th Century and
became important in the Italian Wars of the early 16th
Century.
The arquebus used the
newly invented matchlock firing mechanism which increased its rate of
fire considerably over the old handgun. Armor provided little
protection against an arquebus. Not only did it possess greater
penetration than other missile weapons, its ball was less likely to
be deflected by the curving armour designed to deflect an arrow or
crossbow bolt. Another point in favour of the arquebus was that a
soldier could become proficient in its use after just a few days
training. This was a feature that gave it an edge over the longbow, a
similarly deadly weapon, but one which took a lifetime to master!
Arquebusiers are
organised in deep foot units and start a battle with six ammunition
chits. They have a maximum range of three boxes. When they
successfully activate to shoot, they discard one ammunition chit and
play one to-hit card. The first time that they fire during a battle
they may play two to-hit cards, removing a single ammunition marker.
Mounted and dismounted knights and later knights suffer the same
negative save modifier when shot at by arquebus as they do with hand
gun. Arquebusiers save on an 8+.
Artillery (cannon)
The French artillery park
of the 1494 invasion of Italy was large and generously equipped with
cannon.
Cannon had cast bronze
barrels and were mounted on wheeled carriages that could be pulled by
horses and which consequently moved faster than the oxen-pulled
bombards of the Italian armies. More importantly still, cannon could
shoot further with much greater velocity than the earlier bombards.
Walls were no match for cannon firing a ball made of iron rather than
of stone!
An artillery (cannon)
unit has a single hit, a range of 8 boxes and starts with 6
ammunition.
Units hit by artillery
(cannon) disregard the benefits of cover, including fortifications,
and knights lose the bonus they normally get when fired upon.
Cannon were particularly
effective against massed targets. When firing at ranges of four or
fewer boxes: -
- Where there is more than one unit in the target box, the artillery rolls a to-hit against each unit.
- A bonus to-hit card is played against deep or extra deep units.
Artillery (cannon) pieces
are either placed during deployment, in which case they cannot move
during the battle, or start the game limbered. Limbered artillery can
move one box or unlimber as a doubly difficult activation. Once
unlimbered, artillery (cannon) may not move again during the battle.
Artillery (cannon) can never charge.
When artillery is charged
frontally in a charge that is not across a linear obstacle or
fortifications, the guns are removed without a save. When contacted
by a charge across a linear obstacle or fortification, they have a
save of 8+ (modified by the terrain in the normal manner) and can hit
back on an 8+ - this represents the crewmen defending the gun and the
firing of “hailshot” or similar.
Since guns were deployed
with wide intervals between them, friendly units can move though or
exchange places in a box with them during a move activation as if
they were light units.
Ginetes
and Stradiots
The Spanish ginetes
and the Balkan stradioti fought as light cavalry equipped with
lance and shield. Later in the period there were also Italian
stradioti, who replaced the lance and shield with arquebuses.
Mounted
arquebusiers
From the battle of Biocca
in 1521 onwards, mounted arquebusiers were introduced; sometimes
these were also called stradioti; a famous example would be
the Medici “Bande Nere.” These highly mobile troops proved
invaluable for scouting and, on the battlefield, harassing pikemen
and gendarmes.
Mounted arquebusiers are
light cavalry (arquebus) with have three ammo. They cannot fire their
arquebuses when mounted. They can dismount as part of a shooting
activation (dismount and shoot, or shoot and remount). When
dismounted, treat them as light infantry (arquebus) If charged when
dismounted, they evade as if mounted, remounting as part of their
evade.
Reiters
(early)
Existed from 1546 but
possibly not caracoling during the period of the rules?
France
French
Gendarmes
The French gendarmes of
the Italian Wars were exceptionally well trained, superbly mounted,
heavily armoured and highly motivated. They fought “en haye”,
in a single rank (although supported by ranks of less well equipped
knights and retainers) where their heroic deeds could be recognised.
They are later knights,
lance, veteran. Every unit of gendarmes will have at least one hero
marker. French knights can use a rally activation to replace their
lance marker.
French
foot
French infantry were
notoriously poor in quality during the period suffered by this
supplement. Gascons were the best of a bad lot; they are merely raw.
Other French foot are raw with at least one “uneasy” marker (see
special rules).
Germany
German men-at-arms
The men-at-arms of the
Empire and German states didn’t fight the “a outrance”
(an all-out charge in line) as did most of the mounted Gendarmes and
men-at-arms of France, Spain, and Italy. Instead, German and
Burgundian men-at-arms fought in deep, slow-moving formations. Their
men-at-arms were arrayed in close-order with the wealthier knights to
the fore and with the rear ranks composed of those who could not
afford a full suit of armour.
German men-at-arms are
deep units of later nights with three hits. If they are activated to
move or charge two squares, and the activation card is an Ace, they
receive a disorder, even if the activation card is replayed by a
general.
Landsknechts
The Landsknecht –
universal soldiers, in their colourful and outlandish dress, are
almost a symbol of Renaissance armies. They were primarily
mercenaries. But, their professional approach to war and the skill
with which they waged war ensured employment on every front in
Europe.
Their formations were
primarily composed of pikemen. Support for these large and often
unwieldy blocks was provided by units of crossbow and arquebus-armed
skirmishers. Halberdiers and two-handed “doppelsoldner” swordsmen
led the pike blocks as a “forlorn hope.” The purpose of the
forlorn hope was to cut holes in the opposing pike blocks that would
be exploited by their own pikemen.
The Landsknecht and the
Swiss were sworn enemies. Engagements between these armies were
bloody fights “to-the-death.” Since neither was willing to give
quarter, these battles were known as “bad wars!”
Landsknecht are always
extra deep pike, and should be treated as fanatic when charging or
charged by Swiss pike- they hit Swiss on a 6+, even when disordered.
Their save, however, becomes one factor worse. “Doppelsoldner”
are best represented by attaching heroes to landsknecht.
Spain
Spanish horse
Spanish
horse, although brave and highly experienced, were much less well
armoured than their French equivalents. They are consequently
represented as knights, lance, veteran.
Peter: Early in the period, the Spanish Gienetes (Genitors) were probably the best Light cavalry in Western Europe; usually aimed with Javelins and a shield, leather armor. I rated them as Veteran. More of an army list thing than a troop type.
Peter: Early in the period, the Spanish Gienetes (Genitors) were probably the best Light cavalry in Western Europe; usually aimed with Javelins and a shield, leather armor. I rated them as Veteran. More of an army list thing than a troop type.
Spanish Colonelias
The
Spanish Colonelia of the Italian wars was a mixed formation of pike,
arquebusiers and sword and buckler men. During the early part of the
wars, they were composed of pikemen, sword and buckler men in the
ratio 2:2:1; later the number of arquebusiers increased and the ratio
became 2:1:2.
Colonelias
were dense, all round defensive formations. They are always extra
deep units. Enemy charging them in the flank or rear do not gain the
normal bonus card. Because of their great depth and close formation,
they are slow to move, represented by a -1 activation penalty applied
to all movement (but not charge) activation tests.
The
Spanish were the first army to introduce large numbers of
arquebusiers into their infantry formations. They can either upgrade
their Colonelias with “extra arquebusiers” or they can deploy a
unit of skirmishing arquebusiers with each Colonelia. Light infantry
(arquebus) have three ammunition. Later in the wars, arquebusiers
fought in separate formed units, up to 12 ranks deep.
Unlike
doppelsoldner, the Spanish sword and buckler men joined the melee
AFTER the pike have become engaged and attempt to capitalise on any
disorder within the enemy’s formation. They are represented by a
marker attached to the unit representing a small stand of swordsmen.
They hit on an 8+, as if shock missile, but only after
both sides pike (or other troops) have fought. They are only removed
if the to-hit card is odd, so they may possibly survive to be used
several times.
As
the Wars progressed, Spanish Colonelias are increasingly likely to be
classed as veteran.
The Swiss
What can one say about
the Swiss of the Renaissance: deadly, ruthless, single-minded, and
virtually unstoppable- until Marignano.
Their speed of attack
surprised opponents such Charles-the-Bold and the French on more than
one occasion. This ability for infantry to move so quickly across the
battlefield was unsettling. The speed of their attack became a mark
of their capabilities possibly exceeded only by their ferocity.
They would continue their
unyielding attacks, apparently undaunted by casualties, as during
their repeated assaults against the Spanish at Biocco.
Swiss pike are extra deep
pike with four hits. They are usually both veteran and stubborn (see
below).
The Swiss had a
formidable reputation for the speed of their charge. Consequently,
they gain a special +1 activation modifier on movement activations
and charges directly ahead. Conversely, they are reluctant to retreat
and suffer an additional -1 activation modifier when attempting to do
so.
Special
Rules
Defensive
fire
In this period missile
fire became increasingly effective and so certain units can conduct
defensive fire. In the Italian wars these include only arquebusiers
(and musketeers), but if this booklet is being use with other
contemporary troop types, bowmen, crossbowmen and longbowmen would
also qualify.
In defensive fire, such
troops may shoot once (expending a single ammunition chit) when
charged from one of the three boxes to their front.
Mercenaries
Mercenaries formed a
large component of all Renaissance armies. The Italian Condottiere of
the Renaissance was a professional soldier for hire was only one
aspect of mercenaries. Whole units would be hired soldiers. The Swiss
and the Landsknechts were only two of the troop types employed for
pay; large numbers of crossbowmen were also employed.
Even though they were
usually well trained and led, mercenaries were not often inclined to
fight-it-out when things started to go wrong. Mercenary units cost
fewer points (to be determined) but an extra medal is surrendered
when a mercenary unit is lost.
Muskets
(from 1521)
Muskets were introduced
by the Spanish from 1521 onwards, and gradually replaced arquebuses.
They fire exactly as arquebus,
except that the target’s save is reduced by one.
Stubborn
Stubborn troops, such as
the Swiss throughout most of this period, continue to hit on a 6+
until they have lost more than half of their total hits.
Example: An extra deep
Swiss unit would hit on a 6+ until it had lost three hits, after
which it would hit on an 8+.
Uneasy
Uneasy
units are those on the very
cusp of falling into disorder. The cause of the unease may be that
they are raw recruits who are facing battle for the first time-
however more seasoned soldiers who can sense that the battle is
turning against them may also become uneasy.
Uneasy
units are indicated by placing a marker with a question mark (or
suitable diorama) behind the unit. Units become uneasy: -
when specified in an army list or
scenario. In some scenarios, more than one uneasy marker may be
placed on a unit.
- when sharing a box with a unit that is lost.
When an uneasy unit is shot at, is charged or has, itself, successfully activated to charge an enemy unit, it must immediately make a save. If it should fail the save, then it becomes disordered. The demoralisation marker is then removed. Where a unit has more than one uneasy marker, both tests are taken together- a unit may, therefore, suffer more than one disorder.
Arbalest
The arbalest (or arblast) as the
“armour-defeating” weapon of choice before the advent of
effective gunpowder. It was a heavy crossbow with a steel bow firing
a small steel bolt. The arbalest was shoulder fired and a soldier
could learn to use it with only a small amount of training and then
fire the arbalest’s steel bolt with deadly effect.
It was slow to load, as a large time
consuming ratchet-like tool was needed to cock the bow. While the
bolt had excellent armour-piercing capability, its penetration
dropped off sharply at longer ranges, especially against fully
armoured knights.
SIMON:
These are my thoughts:
- Cannot move and fire
- Does not have defensive fire capability
- Armor do not have the +1 Save penalty only in the first square – possibly an optional rule?
Here
is how I organized them into To the Strongest format. I hope this is
a help!
Arbalest are organised in deep foot
units and start a battle with six ammunition chits. They have a
maximum range of three boxes. When they successfully activate to
shoot, they discard one ammunition chit and play one to-hit card.
Arbalast units cannot move and fire.
Arbalast units do not have defensive fire.
Mounted and dismounted knights and
later knights suffer the negative save modifier when shot at by
arbalests only in the first box. Beyond the first box this modifier
is not used.
Arbalests units save on an 8+.
English Longbow
The English longbow, the scourge of
French Chivalry during the 100 Years War was still very much alive in
the Tudor armies throughout the period of the Italian Wars. However,
it no longer dominated the battlefields of the Continent as it had in
times past. Problems with the longbow, that were not apparent
before, were clearly revealed by the time of the Italian Wars.
A longbowman could only carry a limited
number of the large longbow arrows. They were capable of a high rate
of fire. The result was drop in effectiveness as the arrow supply
became depleted.
- The longbowmen longbow units in massed formations fired high angle instead of direct fire. Since they were in several ranks, most longbowmen could not employ direct fire. Arrows shot as high angle rather than direct fire did not have the range of direct fire. High angle fire also lost some of its penetration.
- Although longbows could quickly fire their sheaf of arrows, enough were usually still available to provide protection, hence the better Save value.
- Longbowmen in massed formations were unable to move and allow all ranks to fire.
- Shallow units of longbowmen do not suffer these penalties.
Here
is how I organized them into To the Strongest format. I hope this is
a help!
Longbows are organised as standard
units, but have the option to organize as deep foot units. Longbow
units start a battle with five (?) ammunition chits. They have a
maximum range of three boxes.
When they successfully activate to
shoot, longbows can discard up to two ammunition chits and play up to
two to-hit cards. One turn in the game, deep longbow units can
discard three ammunition chits and play three to-hit cards. Target
units receive the positive Save modifier when shot at by massed
longbow units due to the high-angle fire needed to fire from multiple
ranks.
Mounted and dismounted knights and
later knights suffer the negative save modifier when shot at by
longbows at 2 squares or less.
Massed longbow units cannot move and
fire. Longbow units have defensive fire. Longbow units save on 7+.
Simon
- I do not know if longbow units used stakes in this period?
Bill and Bow Formation
The “brown bill” was the English
version of the halberd. In addition to bill-armed units, it was
common practice to form a mixed unit of two or three ranks of
longbows behind the protective front rank of billmen.
SIMON:
These are my thoughts:
- The longbowmen of bill and bow units fired high angle instead of direct fire. Since they were in several ranks, and were usually behind the ranks of bills. longbowmen could not employ direct fire. Arrows shot as high angle rather than direct fire did not have the range of direct fire. High angle fire also lost some of its penetration.
- The bills usually formed the front rank in Bill and bow units. In this position they were able to protect the more vulnerable longbowmen.
- Although longbows could quickly fire their sheaf of arrows, enough were usually still available to provide protection, hence the better Save value. The better Save also takes into account the support the longbows provide in hand-to-hand combat. .
- Longbowmen in massed formations were unable to move and allow all ranks to fire
Bill and bow units are organised as
deep foot units. The bills are in the front rank with the longbow man
in ranks behind the bills. Bill and bow units charged from the front
fight with their bills. When attacked from the flank, they do not
fight as in the basic rules.
Longbow units start a battle with five
(?) ammunition chits. They have a maximum range of three boxes.
When they successfully activate to
shoot, the longbows can discard up to two ammunition chits and play
up to two to-hit cards. Target units receive a -1 bonus from fire
from massed longbow unit.
Mounted and dismounted knights and
later knights suffer the negative save modifier when shot at by
longbows at 2 squares or less.
Bill and bow units cannot move and
fire. Bill and bow units have defensive fire. Bill and bow units
save on 6+.
Notes from TMP 19/4/18
@I'm curious what others think about
the similarities and differences in small arms fire at the Battle of
Ceresole in 1542 and the Battle of Lutzen (1632) almost hundred years
later. I pick these two battles as proxies for the period. Would the
volume and effectiveness of small arms fire be noticeably different
if one could observe both battles? Are we talking about a slow
incremental development of small arms over the roughly the hundred
years or did something more radical occur in this period. I
appreciate your thoughts.
Daniel S 12 Apr 2018 9:08 p.m. PST
Massivly diffrent, at Ceresole the
majority of soldiers were armed for close combat only with pike or
halberd among the infantry, lance and sidearms such as sword or mace
among the cavalry. At Lutzen the majority of infantrymen were
musketeers while the cavalry now made extensive use of firearms. The
sheer difference in numbers create a much larger volume of fire.
The fire is also
more efficient as the main firearm at Lützen was full-or
demi-muskets that fired a heavier shot using a larger powder load,
the use of musket rests would also have improved accuracy in the
right hands. At Ceresole the typical firearm was an arquebus and
1540s arquebus often used fired smaller shot than say late 16th
arquebus/calivers.
The Graz tests using actual 16th and
17th century firearms showed that arquebus caliber weapons had a
sharp reduction in lethality past 40-50 paces while muskets only
experienced the same reduction at about 150 paces. The high
leathality zone for the arquebus only extended to about 15 paces
while muskets had such a zone to about 50 paces. Of course neither
weapon became harmless past these ranges but the poor ballistics of
spherical shot meant that long range performance was rather erratic.”
Peter, with Simon's' comments:
1) French
Gendarmes are TOUGH (Later Knights, Veteran, with Hero!) It is almost
impossible to kill these things! Just plain knights and Later knights
are bad enough! :-) Maybe Veteran should either not be allowed
for later Knights, or very limited by Army Lists. {Probably the
later]
I would say that
if there’s a case for any knight to be veteran and have a great
save, it would be the French gendarmes. ��
Yes very limited in the army lists, and more vulnerable, in v2, to
fire by pistols, arequebuses, muskets cannon etc.
2) Arquebus fire seemed too weak. We used a 2 box range for both crossbows and Arquebuses.
2) Arquebus fire seemed too weak. We used a 2 box range for both crossbows and Arquebuses.
Fair enough; a
range of 2 seems appropriate. In v2 they will have a bonus vs.
armoured types at close range.
3) Would arquebuses be able to fire and withdraw 1 bow to the rear like bowmen? Crossbows are listed as NOT being able to shoot and move.
Yes- well the
light infantry (and light cavalry) versions will need to be able to;
also light crossbows.
4) Can deployed Cannons change facing (as opposed to Move). We said yes but made it a difficult activation.
4) Can deployed Cannons change facing (as opposed to Move). We said yes but made it a difficult activation.
In v2 cannon and
organ guns (but not bombards) will be able to move as a difficult
activation, so this should get around it.
5) We used a couple of Colonellas, but no free standing Arquebus units. Was it your intent that regular (2 hit) arquebus units be able to double fire (for 2 chits) on their first shot, but Deep (three hit) Arquebus units be able to double fire at any time (reflecting fire by rotation)?
My current
thinking is that formed arquebusiers won’t get a bonus on their
first volley, but will instead get closing fire, which gives them an
extra shot when charged. I think they should be generally be two-hit
units (representing 6-8 ranks). We could also have three hit deep
units with the ability to fire twice- this starts to get hard to
remember, though. What do you think?
6) How to cost for the STUBBORN property of Swiss pikes (talk about TOUGH!)? I added 1 pt per hit, ie, 4 points for an extra deep unit. Not sure that;'s enough, maybe 6 points per extra deep unit, especially given the Swiss Advance rule, too!
6) How to cost for the STUBBORN property of Swiss pikes (talk about TOUGH!)? I added 1 pt per hit, ie, 4 points for an extra deep unit. Not sure that;'s enough, maybe 6 points per extra deep unit, especially given the Swiss Advance rule, too!
I’ve made a
note to look at it.
7) Forlorn Hopes (for pike units, mostly Landsknechts). I'd suggest the retained on EVEN hit cards and lost on ODD) as opposed to just treating as a simple hero.
7) Forlorn Hopes (for pike units, mostly Landsknechts). I'd suggest the retained on EVEN hit cards and lost on ODD) as opposed to just treating as a simple hero.
Heroes are coming
out, in v2, so I’ll need to find a different way of representing
this. Probably the best thing would be to give the unit a single
shock missile.
8) Should Extra Deep units count Difficult activations as Triply difficult (like Colunellas?) In other word, if the first activation of the turn, they need a 4+. We played it that way and it seemed to work well
8) Should Extra Deep units count Difficult activations as Triply difficult (like Colunellas?) In other word, if the first activation of the turn, they need a 4+. We played it that way and it seemed to work well
Yes I
think they likely should. I think colunellas should have an extra
-1 penalty; an extra penalty in exchange for the all-round protection
they get.
"BTW,
we didn't use the "Mercenary" suggested rule; didn't make
sense to me that they would cost an extra VM when lost. What would
make more sense to me would be a negative modifier to their Rout
tests.
Hmm, come to think of it, a more elegant (and severe penalty) would be that Mercenary units only get to play ONE card on a rout test instead of the usual two. That makes them twice as likely to fail, which makes sense - they fight just as well (or better) than normal troops, BUT, when things look like they're going down the crapper, they're the first to think "Feet don't fail me now"!
Yeah, i think I like that - it is significant, logical, and easy to remember!
Hmm, come to think of it, a more elegant (and severe penalty) would be that Mercenary units only get to play ONE card on a rout test instead of the usual two. That makes them twice as likely to fail, which makes sense - they fight just as well (or better) than normal troops, BUT, when things look like they're going down the crapper, they're the first to think "Feet don't fail me now"!
Yeah, i think I like that - it is significant, logical, and easy to remember!
I like that!
I’ll give some thought as to what a suitable cost-reduction might
be.
Still not tried Ancients set but a set covering Thirty Years War might appeal
ReplyDeleteI think Simon has in mind a separate TYW set; by that time, integrated like and shot units are the norm.
DeleteI like your longbow option, I've had a game with these notes and yes the French gendarmes were hard as nails! I did think the Spanish coloneas were a bit overstrong if anything,did you notice that at all? I need to have a few more games and introduce heroes and whatnot.
ReplyDeleteBest Iain
Those are Simon’s ideas. We found the Colunellas weak, but that is probably because they were fighting the
DeleteSwiss head on - that Stubbirn trait is a killer... literally!
I'm still trying to plan an ancients game with the current version, but I like the idea of splitting the period up into two volumes. I'll also have to invest in For King and Parliament at some stage as well. Do you know if there are any plans to expand the renaissance period to Eastern Europe?
ReplyDeleteThere's no reason that the rules couldn't/wouldn't cover Eastern Europe, although the Thirty Years War and beyond are probably the subject of a different set. A number of the rules developments in For King and Parliament will likely make their way into TTYS version 2, and any TYW supplement.
DeleteGreat stuff! Though I pretty much agree with what you posted here I do have a few doubts and would like to give my two cents worth :)
ReplyDeleteI watched a youtube video of some museum people testing heavy crossbows firing against armored breastplates and even they were surprised. At close range the quarrels bounced or barely penetrated at all.
Also as far as arquebus fire goes, as the much esteemed Daniel S stated, their lethality only extended about 15-40 paces.
Finally I was under the impression that colunelas were actually more shallow formations than either the Swiss or landsknechts employed. Check Olincanalad's blog for his views on what he did with the colunelas.
Finally I definitely agree with you that the mercenary rule just doesn't seem right as stated. Your idea makes more sense.
I think that Simon is using the Colunella here as a sort of hybrid concept between it and the later Tercio; even then, the depth and immobility of the Tercio has, perhaps been exaggerated. There are also suggestions that the Tercio was more an administrative formation than a tactical one.
DeleteI'd be interested in seeing how the Heavy crossbows fared against Mail; my impression is that the evolution of armor towards ever more complete plate mail was spurred by the rise of the crossbow (and longbow; likewise horse armor. Armor probably reached it'
s peak during the late Renaissance, and by the mid to late Italian Wars, the degree of armor began to decrease again, as the rise of the arquebus made the investment and weight of the fine suits of armor less and less practical.